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    On 11/02/2012 2:48 AM, francesca vitalini wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPRCF+Lvcad28ETLsrOWpdtiPxu+e6ff4n7wKnB+-sDh3-pJjw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">In fact in the reverse transformation I'm feeding the
      CG structure information. <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Yes, but you need a source of atomistic intra-residue knowledge
    about protein structure in order to convert a CG structure to
    something that is vaguely plausible at FG.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPRCF+Lvcad28ETLsrOWpdtiPxu+e6ff4n7wKnB+-sDh3-pJjw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Once I look through VMD to the FG structure I notice
      that the backbones are not in planes so definitely I need to run
      some minimization there. In the tutorial they were using
      simulating annealing, but I don't think I need more than energy
      minimization for that.<br>
      What do you think?<br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    So you've learned that any kind of simple restraint based on the
    input FG structure is likely to produce a garbage result because the
    atomistic detail of the input FG structure is garbage. Simulated
    annealing does sound like a good way to start refining the
    structure. You need something capable of more than local
    minimization, unlike EM. Tiny time steps are probably necessary to
    cope with the large forces.<br>
    <br>
    In GROMACS 4.5 you could use some COM virtual sites (or similar, see
    manual) to have position restraints to the positions of the original
    beads. If you feel the result of the above refinement has deviated
    too much for whatever your real purpose is, then taking the refined
    structure and introducing such v-site position restraints could be
    useful.<br>
    <br>
    Mark<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAPRCF+Lvcad28ETLsrOWpdtiPxu+e6ff4n7wKnB+-sDh3-pJjw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite"><br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">2012/2/10 Mark Abraham <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Mark.Abraham@anu.edu.au">Mark.Abraham@anu.edu.au</a>&gt;</span><br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
            <div>
              <div class="h5"> On 11/02/2012 12:41 AM, francesca
                vitalini wrote:
                <blockquote type="cite">In order to overcome the problem
                  I tried to fix everything except the backbone
                  (solvent, sidechain and CA, as I want the structure to
                  be maintained). However, if I do then I have problems
                  with the energy minimization as the force on the 15300
                  is infinite.<br>
                  <br>
                  Getting Loaded...<br>
                  Reading file EM1-1.tpr, VERSION 3.3.1 (single
                  precision)<br>
                  Loaded with Money<br>
                  <br>
                  Steepest Descents:<br>
                  &nbsp;&nbsp; Tolerance (Fmax)&nbsp;&nbsp; =&nbsp; 1.00000e+01<br>
                  &nbsp;&nbsp; Number of steps&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2000<br>
                  -------------------------------------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

                  inf, atom= 15300<br>
                  Program mdrun, VERSION 3.3.1<br>
                  Source code file: nsgrid.c, line: 226<br>
                  <br>
                  Range checking error:<br>
                  Explanation: During neighborsearching, we assign each
                  particle to a grid<br>
                  based on its coordinates. If your system contains
                  collisions or parameter<br>
                  errors that give particles very high velocities you
                  might end up with some<br>
                  coordinates being +-Infinity or NaN (not-a-number).
                  Obviously, we cannot<br>
                  put these on a grid, so this is usually where we
                  detect those errors.<br>
                  Make sure your system is properly energy-minimized and
                  that the potential<br>
                  energy seems reasonable before trying again.<br>
                  <br>
                  Variable ci has value -<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="tel:2147483648" value="+12147483648"
                    target="_blank">2147483648</a>. It should have been
                  within [ 0 .. 27744 ]<br>
                  Please report this to the mailing list (<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:gmx-users@gromacs.org" target="_blank">gmx-users@gromacs.org</a>)<br>
-------------------------------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  "Oh My God ! It's the Funky Shit" (Beastie Boys)<br>
                  <br>
                  Halting program mdrun<br>
                  <br>
                  You suggested to check if there is any overlapping.</blockquote>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
            ... so you need to get out some visualization software and
            look at the transformed structure :)
            <div class="im"><br>
              <br>
              <blockquote type="cite"> There might be as my structure is
                obtained through a reverse transformation from a CG
                representation. In the mapping the atoms are positioned
                randomly in the bead. Now I'm running some energy
                minimization to equilibrate those atoms. I had to
                solvate the system after the mapping (couldn't do it
                before due to problems with ions)but I haven't
                equilibrated it yet and I'm keeping it fixed which could
                also be a source of overlapping. <br>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
            </div>
            Local minimization with EM cannot in general take a "random"
            positioning of the generated atoms and make it one that will
            be stable under MD. Some structure knowledge needs to be
            build into the reverse transformation.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                color="#888888"><br>
                <br>
                Mark</font></span>
            <div>
              <div class="h5"><br>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite"> Any ideas?<br>
                  Thanks.<br>
                  Francesca<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">2012/2/10 Justin A. Lemkul <span
                      dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jalemkul@vt.edu" target="_blank">jalemkul@vt.edu</a>&gt;</span><br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div><br>
                        <br>
                        francesca vitalini wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"> I achieve<br>
                          <br>
                          Steepest Descents converged to machine
                          precision in 205 steps,<br>
                          but did not reach the requested Fmax &lt; 10.<br>
                          Potential Energy &nbsp;= -1.49131940478719e+07<br>
                          Maximum force &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;1.09664530279637e+06 on
                          atom 1520 &nbsp; &nbsp;(parto of the protein)<br>
                          Norm of force &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;2.28369808518165e+06<br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      The magnitude of the force suggests atomic overlap
                      somewhere. &nbsp;Start by investigating the environment
                      around atom 1520.
                      <div><br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"> and the system looked
                          with vmd doesn't look as if it was exploding.
                          However, I have warnings about the table
                          extension and I don't know why but gromacs
                          writes pdb files sometime. However I thought
                          that there <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      The "step.pdb" files are written when mdrun is
                      about to crash.
                      <div><br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"> might have been an
                          error in the way I defined the position
                          restraints, in fact in the mdp file I hade
                          define = -DEPOSRE while in the topology I had
                          ifdef DEFINE_WAT, so it might have moved it
                          all without fixing the water. So I tried again
                          and this time I got<br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      The "define" statements are literal, so be careful
                      of typos. &nbsp;-DEPOSRE will not work when the
                      topology calls for -DPOSRES. &nbsp;So unless you've
                      changed default naming for "define" statements,
                      you're not going to get what you expect.
                      <div> <br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"> Steepest Descents
                          converged to machine precision in 72 steps,<br>
                          but did not reach the requested Fmax &lt; 10.<br>
                          Potential Energy &nbsp;= -2.0135496e+07<br>
                          Maximum force &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;2.0486184e+12 on atom
                          4479<br>
                          Norm of force &nbsp; &nbsp; = &nbsp;7.2424045e+13<br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      Again, symptomatic of severe atomic overlap.
                      <div><br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"> but again the same
                          issue with table extent and still the
                          production of pdb files.<br>
                          <br>
                          Any explanations?<br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      Investigate the starting configurations near the
                      problematic atoms.<br>
                      <br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/Blowing_Up#Diagnosing_an_Unstable_System"
                        target="_blank">http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/Blowing_Up#Diagnosing_an_Unstable_System</a><span><font
                          color="#888888"><br>
                          <br>
                          -Justin</font></span>
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                          <br>
                          -- <br>
                          ========================================<br>
                          <br>
                          Justin A. Lemkul<br>
                          Ph.D. Candidate<br>
                          ICTAS Doctoral Scholar<br>
                          MILES-IGERT Trainee<br>
                          Department of Biochemistry<br>
                          Virginia Tech<br>
                          Blacksburg, VA<br>
                          jalemkul[at]<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://vt.edu" target="_blank">vt.edu</a>
                          | <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="tel:%28540%29%20231-9080"
                            value="+15402319080" target="_blank">(540)
                            231-9080</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin"
                            target="_blank">http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin</a><br>
                          <br>
                          ========================================<br>
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                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <br clear="all">
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                  Francesca Vitalini<br>
                  <br>
                  PhD student at Computational Molecular Biology Group,
                  <br>
                  Department of Mathematics and Informatics, FU-Berlin<br>
                  Arnimallee 6 14195 Berlin<br>
                  <br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                </blockquote>
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        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br clear="all">
      <br>
      -- <br>
      Francesca Vitalini<br>
      <br>
      PhD student at Computational Molecular Biology Group, <br>
      Department of Mathematics and Informatics, FU-Berlin<br>
      Arnimallee 6 14195 Berlin<br>
      <br>
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    </blockquote>
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